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Topic: English translation thread

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DragonAtma
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Joined: 2014-09-14, 01:54
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 Posted at: 2014-10-29, 21:55

As requested by GunChleoc, here's a new thread to discuss the english translation. I took a look at the english translations for wares, workers, and buildings in build 18, then updated the list for daily 7237. Here are my suggestions:

...Barbarians:
Raw Stone -> Stone

...Empire:
Stones -> Stone (Almost no other resources in Widelands are plural)
Wood -> Board ("Wood" is generic and covers everything from living trees to quality furniture)
Wood Lance -> Pike ("Lance" is the version used by mounted troops, not those on foot)
Lance -> Spear (Pikes are longer than spears, but often have a smaller spearhead)
Advanced Lance -> Spetum (Spetums have short blades flanking the main blade, just like the icon; see polearm pics)
Heavy Lance -> Halberd (there's no perfect match, but Halberds are certainly closer to the icon than lances; see polearm pics)
War-Lance -> Heavy Halberd
Chain-Armour -> Chain Armor
Plate-Armour -> Laminar Armor (it's certainly not plate armor; see below)

...Atlanteans:
Spideryarn -> Strand (Yarn is thick, while spiderwebs use thin strands)
Cornflour -> Cornmeal
Gold Yarn -> Gold Thread (Metallic threads tend to be narrow, not wide)

---

"Donjon" is a french term; the english version is "Dungeon". But we have a dungeon for atlanteans, and it serves an entirely different purpose -- so it may be best to stick with Donjon or change one of the two into a different type (say, changing Donjon into Tower).

Either grout should be changed to lime, or lime-burner and lime kiln should be changed to reference grout; I have a feeling grout is correct. Even if lime is correct, the worker should be "Lime Burner" not "Lime-Burner".

Technically a brewer is only someone who makes beer (someone who makes wine is called a vintner), but it may be better to have a slight inaccuracy than to introduce an entirely new imperial worker just for making grapes into wine.

Imperial soldiers really seem to be modeled after roman soldiers wearing lorica segmentata, which is a type of laminar armor (armor made of horizontal metal strips, best known for lorica segmentata and for samurai armor). The icon for "plate-armour" should be updated, as it's not laminar armor and defintiely not plate armor (which uses large pieces of metal). Fortunately, I'm at least somewhat skilled at working on small pictures, so I just may be able to provide a suitable icon.

Finally, since headquarters and warehouse windows were switched from horizontal to vertical, the text "Heavy Double Trident" no longer fits in the window.

Polearm pics: http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~fine/Fun/polearms.html
Lorica segmentata: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Roman_soldier_in_lorica_segmentata_1.jpg
Samurai armor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Japanese_Armour_Diagram_by_Wendelin_Boeheim.jpg
Plate armor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Italian_-_Sallet_-_Walters_51580.jpg

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tuggyne

Joined: 2011-07-22, 00:27
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Posted at: 2014-10-29, 23:05

Good critiques in here; just a couple more nitpicks.

DragonAtma wrote: Chain-Armour -> Chain Armor Plate-Armour -> Laminar Armor (it's certainly not plate armor; see below)

You could technically call chain something like "mail" (which is correct, and specifically meant chain), but most people would probably be a little confused. So "chain armor" is probably acceptable and non-confusing.

"Donjon" is a french term; the english version is "Dungeon". But we have a dungeon for atlanteans, and it serves an entirely different purpose -- so it may be best to stick with Donjon or change one of the two into a different type (say, changing Donjon into Tower).

"Donjon" is again a rather technically-correct but practically-confusing word. An alternative for idiomatic English is probably "Keep", which if memory serves is unused by any building. And keeps are the equivalent of donjons in the fortification sense, as opposed to the prison sense that dungeon has now taken on.

Actually, dungeon is a little weird too, but I can't think of a good alternative.

Either grout should be changed to lime, or lime-burner and lime kiln should be changed to reference grout; I have a feeling grout is correct. Even if lime is correct, the worker should be "Lime Burner" not "Lime-Burner".

Grout all the way.

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DragonAtma
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 Posted at: 2014-10-29, 23:22

I thought about going with "keep", but it usually refers to only a part of a castle/fortress (specifically, the fortified part where the defenders retreat to if the rest of the castle falls -- often the largest tower).

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Ex-Member
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Joined: 2014-09-12, 10:53
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 Posted at: 2014-10-30, 10:16

Correct English uses the words armour, colour and axe. The alternative spellings that litter the documentation are, in the main, American. As it is usually the British who are language pedants and Americans generally do not care about spelling it might be better to stick to English spellings rather than American ones.

Additionally there is no such thing ass gold ore, iron does come as an ore but gold is just gold mixed with rock but not chemically bound.

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SirVer

Joined: 2009-02-19, 15:18
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Posted at: 2014-10-30, 10:33

Please keep in mind that this is a game - a work of fiction. Realism is not wanted and not searched for.

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DragonAtma
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 Posted at: 2014-10-30, 10:35

Oh, you didn't hear? American english IS the correct english by a margin of 315 million to 53 million. face-wink.png

But seriously, it depends on whether the widelands team wants to use american english or british english. Since they changed "armour" to "armor", they probably prefer american english. British english is perfectly acceptable, but if they decide to go with that (and don't pick up a native british english speaker) there's the risk that I accidentally introduce american variants.

As for gold, although it's more likely to come unalloyed than most metals, it definitely comes in ores: electrum, calaverite, sylvanite, nagyagite, petzite, and krennerite are all naturally-occurring gold alloys, although electrum is clearly the most common.

Edited: 2014-10-30, 10:35
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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2014-10-30, 11:04

...Barbarians: Raw Stone -> Stone

...Empire: Stones -> Stone (Almost no other resources in Widelands are plural)

I wouldn't mind unifying the "Stone" description for all 3 tribes, since it's a basic resource like the logs. How about calling it "Granite"? This would go nicely with the Barbarians' "Granite Mine", and I always found it a bit askew to have Marble (specific) and Stones (general) for the Empire.

Wood -> Board ("Wood" is generic and covers everything from living trees to quality furniture)

How about "Planks" like for the Atlanteans, as both are created in a sawmill? Or are we losing flavour here? I also don't like the icon for the planks, because its color is so light it's a bit hard to see. If we unify the name, we might as well use the Atlantean icon for both.

Wood Lance -> Pike ("Lance" is the version used by mounted troops, not those on foot) Lance -> Spear (Pikes are longer than spears, but often have a smaller spearhead) Advanced Lance -> Spetum (Spetums have short blades flanking the main blade, just like the icon; see polearm pics) Heavy Lance -> Halberd (there's no perfect match, but Halberds are certainly closer to the icon than lances; see polearm pics) War-Lance -> Heavy Halberd Chain-Armour -> Chain Armor Plate-Armour -> Laminar Armor (it's certainly not plate armor; see below)

I'm all for doing something more accurate here, but we should have a generic base term to make gameplay more easy. Barbarian weapons are "x Ax", Atlantean weapons are "x Trident". So, "x Spear" for the Empire instead of "x Lance"?

...Atlanteans: Spideryarn -> Strand (Yarn is thick, while spiderwebs use thin strands)

Spider silk? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spider_silk

Gold Yarn -> Gold Thread (Metallic threads tend to be narrow, not wide)

+1

Cornflour -> Cornmeal

+1

"Donjon" is a french term; the english version is "Dungeon". But we have a dungeon for atlanteans, and it serves an entirely different purpose -- so it may be best to stick with Donjon or change one of the two into a different type (say, changing Donjon into Tower).

I would be OK with "Tower", The Donjon is a medium building just like the towers of the other tribes.

Either grout should be changed to lime, or lime-burner and lime kiln should be changed to reference grout; I have a feeling grout is correct. Even if lime is correct, the worker should be "Lime Burner" not "Lime-Burner".

The Lime Kiln Burns lime in the lime kiln to create grout. If we rename anything, it would be grout -> lime mortar, or grout -> mortar. The building name doesn't necessarily need to reverence the ware, because other buildings don't either - just think quarry or inn.

Technically a brewer is only someone who makes beer (someone who makes wine is called a vintner), but it may be better to have a slight inaccuracy than to introduce an entirely new imperial worker just for making grapes into wine.

I think this is a good idea, we will need an icon though. Programming this won't be a problem, it's just a matter of changing the configuration files.

Imperial soldiers really seem to be modeled after roman soldiers wearing lorica segmentata, which is a type of laminar armor (armor made of horizontal metal strips, best known for lorica segmentata and for samurai armor). The icon for "plate-armour" should be updated, as it's not laminar armor and defintiely not plate armor (which uses large pieces of metal). Fortunately, I'm at least somewhat skilled at working on small pictures, so I just may be able to provide a suitable icon.

Like with the weapons, we should have "x Armor" here for consistency. "Chain Armor" and "Segmented Armor"? Players might be more familiar with plate armor though, and the question is, do we need to be historically accurate here?

Finally, since headquarters and warehouse windows were switched from horizontal to vertical, the text "Heavy Double Trident" no longer fits in the window.

I can't reproduce the problem, it fits for me. Which operating system and screen resolution are you using?

Busy indexing nil values

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DragonAtma
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 Posted at: 2014-10-30, 11:31

Granite sounds fine to me.

Planks instead of Boards works fine; I only went with a different name because they have a different icon. Of course, there's nothing wrong with changing the icon, for one of them, especially if the current icon is subpar! ;)

x Spear is certainly doable, although I imagine there'll be the occasional "You know, technically the more advanced spears are really a different type of polearm!" comment.

As for lime/grout, you have a point there; it feels a bit odd to me, but then again, I have no personal experience with putting up buildings!

if you want to stick with x Armor, you can always change Plate Armor into Gilded Armor, Advanced Armor, or Elite Armor -- all of which are perfectly fine for the current icon. Although romans legionaries were famous using segmentata, they also used chain armor ("lorica hamata") in large numbers.

As for the text not fitting, I use windows 7 professional and a 1080x1920 screen (although games are normally windowed, ideally to 1366x768)

Lorica hamata: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lorica_Hamata.jpg
Text overflow: http://www.mediafire.com/view/g0s3etcbfs9x355/widelands+text+overflow.png#

Edited: 2014-10-30, 11:33
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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2014-10-30, 18:03

I took so long to post that I missed a few face-wink.png

We made a consious decision to use American English as the source language. On the one hand, it is the international language of commerce and computing and as such the de facto industry standard (like it or not, I personally think the British spelling is prettier ;)), and on the other hand, somebody had already started a translation to British English on Launchpad. We actually changed armour to armor and axe to ax etc. recently, so breaking the translaion again to go British is not a good idea.

From the discussion so far, I would agree to the following changes:

All tribes

  • (Raw) Stone(s) => Granite

Empire

  • Wood => Planks, use the Atlantean icon
  • x Lance => x Spear, because lances are cavalry weapons
  • Plate Armor => Gilded Armor (fits the icon best)
  • add a Vintner, if we can make a good icon

Atlanteans

  • Spideryarn => Spider Silk
  • Gold Yarn => Gold Thread
  • Cornflour => Cornmeal

Barbarians

  • Donjon => Tower
  • I also think that Strongbeer => Stout would be good.

And I've opened a bug for the Warehouse text problem: https://bugs.launchpad.net/widelands/+bug/1387784

Busy indexing nil values

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DragonAtma
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 Posted at: 2014-10-31, 04:49

Okay, one more comment: if a training camp fails because it needs "fish or meat" and neither one is there, the failed message should say "fish and meat are missing" not "fish or meat is missing". The same would be true for all buildings that need fish or meat (but not both), but don't have either.

Edited: 2014-10-31, 05:10
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