Topic: Widelands tournament 2017: subscriptions started (and random chit-chat)
LAZA
Joined: 2010-05-22, 12:34
Posts: 49  Pry about Widelands Location: Winterhill, Swabia, Germany |
Posted at: 2017-03-19, 13:16
YT clip - Man achte auf den Zwischenruf...! * Dell X58 * 
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WorldSavior
Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
Posts: 2098 OS: Linux Version: Recent tournament version  One Elder of Players Location: Germany |
Posted at: 2017-03-19, 16:23
I had already noticed it
So it might be better if the ranking would be completely automatic
That sounds also normal for me Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked
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GunChleoc
Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
Posts: 3317 One Elder of Players Location: RenderedRect |
Posted at: 2017-03-20, 10:53
Wesnoth have an inofficial ladder, maybe we can steal some ideas from there? http://wesnoth.gamingladder.info/ Busy indexing nil values
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WorldSavior
Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
Posts: 2098 OS: Linux Version: Recent tournament version One Elder of Players Location: Germany |
Posted at: 2017-03-22, 16:28
Yes, maybe. If it's legal, why not. Probably they won't miss anything Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked
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GunChleoc
Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
Posts: 3317 One Elder of Players Location: RenderedRect |
Posted at: 2017-03-22, 17:50
We would need to check the license, of course. But since Wesnoth itself is GPL and we already have reused some of their code, chances are good. Edited: 2017-03-22, 17:50
Busy indexing nil values
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king_of_nowhere
Topic Opener
Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
Posts: 1668 One Elder of Players |
Posted at: 2017-03-22, 23:22
I don't like the idea of having an automated system. I want people playing casual games to be able to keep playing casually. I see in league of legends that people are much more aggressive in ranked, with more pressure put on the players and flaming much more likely. Eventually I stopped playing ranked (didn't help that the matchmaking system must have some skewed idea of my real strenght and always pair me against much stronger people than I am, so I often end up feeding). I don't want the same thing to happen here. there is also to take into account how many maps are unbalanced; how would an automated system deal with that?
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trimard
Joined: 2009-03-05, 22:40
Posts: 230  Widelands-Forum-Junkie Location: Paris |
Posted at: 2017-03-23, 19:40
Starcraft has that: it's called unranked. You play with people of your level, but the result of the match doesn't affect your ELO. Another point is that casual players are more likely to prefer to play with other casual players. I think it's a benefit.
Yes, but that only happens if you know about your ELO! I think the reason the game is so relaxed right now is also a question of the population. Most of the competitive games have a bad community because of the number of players. If widelands start to get even bigger than it is right now, the community will degrade a bit. Whatever the implementation of competition you got.
If you're randomly placed for each map. Statistically you'll end having bad positions has much as good ones. I don't see the problem here. You mean for people who don't play a lot? If we want to be sure that people play exactly as many bad than good position, we could always take a statistic of the best/worst position, and place accordingly so that it's 50% good position/ 50%bad ones.
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king_of_nowhere
Topic Opener
Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
Posts: 1668 One Elder of Players |
Posted at: 2017-03-23, 20:41
everything you say works for a system with automated pairing, automated settings, and a large pool of players. a system where you click on a "play match" button and then it does it all automatically. this is definitely not our case. most people just contact each other in advance to play, because if you go in lobby you'll most likely find it empty. most of those people don't even read the forum, i don't know how they would react if they played a game and suddenly a sign popped up "you lost 30 elo points!". some of those people may intentionally give the bad start to the better player, something that would not be appreciated if the games were ranked automatically.. and we certainly cannot afford an automated matchmaking system. "you've been put on the queue, your queueing position is 1 out of 1. average waiting time is two hours". Last, I absolutely hate the "hidden ranking" system. apparently people couldn't bear the fact that they were ranked 234739th, so they kept the data covered. So now I know I have a crappy score, I just don't know how crappy that it, or how it compares to others. No, just awful. If we implement some ranking, I prefer to use the rules of chess, which has had a ranking going on for far longer than any videogame, and it is regulated with a measure of seriousness - there's a lot of complaining about some of the FIDE policies, but at least it's not an owning enterprise taking decisions. And in chess, only tournament games are ranked.
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GunChleoc
Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
Posts: 3317 One Elder of Players Location: RenderedRect |
Posted at: 2017-03-23, 21:11
If we have something automated, it should definitely be opt-in for the players. It would also be good to have an extra dev on the team for this, because coding this will not be trivial. Busy indexing nil values
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trimard
Joined: 2009-03-05, 22:40
Posts: 230 Widelands-Forum-Junkie Location: Paris |
Posted at: 2017-03-24, 15:42
Last one is definitely the hardest part, I agree. The other are more manageable It think.
No that's not what I had in mind for the reasons you illustrated pretty well. I was more thinking at a system where you say at what time you expect to be able to play, and the system automatically tells you the players that might play at these hours (in order of priority those that have the closest elo to you, hence the ELO really don't close any opportunity). You click on the "propose match" option, you set the time, you propose a few maps. When the other agree with the time, he chose the map among those you proposed. When the time to plays comes around, if you're not present, you get malus points.
I agree, we haven't discovered any better system yet IMO, but doesn't that have the same problem than with the LOL system? People won't be frustrated?
I'm ready to help on that part this summer, if we agree on the concept
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Even if you neglect king_of_nowhere's participation, GunChleoc is the first participant 
Widelands is different for any person. For me, normal game is when you have enough time to build up whole economy.