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Topic: "Northmen" Tribe Page

Nordfriese
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Joined: 2017-01-17, 18:07
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Posted at: 2017-11-06, 18:51

This bug was fixed in the latest version of the scenario.

I don´t know a good fix for the broken savegame (perhaps including empire_warehouse in data/tribes/frisians.lua might do the trick?); you´ll have to download the latest revision and restart the mission…

I can´t promise that the campaign is completely bug-free now, as I didn´t manage to win this difficult scenario yet face-smile.png


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2017-11-06, 20:00

How did you fix this? Did you merge the dynamic loading branch? What do you mean with you don't know a fix for the savegame. If the bug is fixed then future sav egames will not crash. As far as I know you can't fix a already broken file you also can't change the scripting code in a savegame (the code is saved in the game and changing it will lead to a crash) I wanted to wait for this branch to hit trunk and then change the files in my mission as well. Will have a look into your scripts to get new ideas anyhow.


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Ex-Member
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Joined: 2014-09-12, 10:53
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Posted at: 2017-11-06, 22:39

Adding empire_warehouse in data/tribes/frisians.lua does not help. face-sad.png

I thought I was running the latest version, but maybe not. Is 8445 the latest?


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GunChleoc
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Posted at: 2017-11-07, 06:33

You would also need to add all wares and workers that the building uses to the tribe.

The branch that will allow to add custom scenario buildings hasn't been merged yet. It would allow to add a building that looks exactly like the Empire warehouse but is actually a Frisian warehouse, without having to change the tribe at all.


Busy indexing nil values

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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2017-11-07, 07:32

The current "fix" is actually more of a workaround, but it works fine at least for me. It´ll be properly fixed when the dynamic_tribe_loading branch is merged.

This bug shouldn´t be an issue any more in 8445, as the empire_warehouse is no longer used… I´m confused face-upset.png


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2017-11-08, 20:06

ok now I understand. you added a second frisian warehouse to your tribe that looks exactly like an empire_warehouse. face-wink.png that is pretty much the same I have done since now for empire mission 4. But with the dynamic tribe loading branche you could basically modify your tribe for every scenario without having to do so in general.


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2017-11-08, 20:10

Another issue I found in Mission 1 of your tribe. Played it yesterday and had lot of fun until I conquered the enemy HQ. Because then you revealed the map for player 1 (P1.see_all) which left the small sentinel blocking the Port space unattackable. I'd recomment to remove the see all cause the player already has conquered the island completely. You could use reveal fields instead if necessary. or wait until the last military building is conquered. The rest of the scenario worked well for me unless the opponent is very strong and I had to use a trick to not let him attack me to early.


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2017-11-10, 11:04

Thanks for reporting this bug, I never found it myself face-smile.png

The reason why I consider it necessary to allow the player to see the whole map is because the fields where the stormflood starts and the fields where the port can be built (which the advisor says he can see) might not be visible. I´ll remove the p1.see_all=true and instead use p1:reveal_fields for all fields on the map. This should fix the issue.

The opponent is very strong and I never had a strong-enough army before he reached me face-smile.png Which is why I made it possible to use a trick which might or might not work in normal games to prevent an attack.

I´m glad you like the scenario face-smile.png


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hessenfarmer
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Posted at: 2017-11-10, 19:43

In my opinion the scenario should be balanced in a way that it is somewhat demanding, but it should not be neccesary to use a trick to get through. It is still the first scenario introducing the tribe with its characters and all the basic economy chain of the tribe. So it should be winnable for a player who has played widelands for a couple of games. Solutions might be reducing the number of soldiers of the opponent or slowing him down to reach the player. I would prefer the latter one. in other maps this has been done by separating the opponents by rocks or by wood. it could be done by unbuildable terrain allowing only large military buildings to cross the gap and forbidding them to the AI player.
As the scenario introduces the economy as well as our frisian heros it would not hurt to add more messages / dialogs to better understand the different characters. Another improvement could be a less serialized way to trigger the objectives and messages and perhaps some hidden texts and messages that are only fired on special occasions. This would add more complexity and variety to the scenario, but I know it is not that easy to implement.
Again in General I like the scenario, the storyline and the characters introduced and therefore I would like to see more of them.
Currently playing scenario two which is very difficult as well. will report back on this later on.


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Nordfriese
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Posted at: 2017-11-11, 16:42

I´ll try to come up with some more dialogue to emphasise the characters. Only, I don´t like it if a scenario has lots of speech about nothing, and I´m not sure if I´ll really find something that fits with the storyline without being superfluous. If you have any ideas, feel free to share them face-smile.png

Instead of slowing down the AI, I think I´ll rather have the advisor complain that the enemy is too strong and advancing fast and suggest a strategy to prevent an attack. That way, players will be taught some military strategy as well as the economy.

As for the storyline, I´m not sure… it´s very linear, and I don´t see much possibility for variation here. Most buildings are forbidden until they are explained, and when they are available, they are instantly demanded as an objective. I suppose I could add some checks for shortages and give hints like "you´re out of reed, better build another reed farm"…

Update on general development

In the recent uploads, I tweaked the work/sleep times for all productionsites. I used similar buildings in other tribes for comparison, so the programs should be balanced now.

I also changed the default stock target for tools and the order in which they are produced by the blacksmithy.

Right now, I´m working on the berry bushes. Trees have a terrain affinity, but other plants (like fields) don´t. For farms etc I can understand that the fields grow everywhere with a 100% chance, but I think the berry bushes should be more special here, as they are planted and harvested by different buildings, and grow in a larger radius, and because (at least in my experience) they are the most useful supply for bee-keepers. So, I want to make several types of berry bushes with different terrain affinities. This will also bring some more diversity in bush-landscapes, which look rather monotonously now.

The problem is that I can´t get the berry farmer to pick one type of bush if several types are available. I tried

"plant tribe:berry_bush_blueberry_tiny,tribe:berry_bush_raspberry_tiny"
"plant tribe:berry_bush_blueberry_tiny,berry_bush_raspberry_tiny"
"plant tribe:berry_bush_blueberry_tiny tribe:berry_bush_raspberry_tiny"
"plant tribe:berry_bush_blueberry_tiny berry_bush_raspberry_tiny"

but they all cause this error message:

[../src/scripting/lua_errors.cc:22] [../src/scripting/lua_errors.cc:22] [../src/logic/map_objects/tribes/worker_descr.cc:112] program plant: [../src/logic/map_objects/tribes/worker_program.cc:139] Error reading line 'plant tribe:berry_bush_blueberry_tiny berry_bush_raspberry_tiny' in worker program plant for worker frisians_berry_farmer: plant takes either tribe:<immovable> or attrib:<attribute>

I also tried

"plant attrib:bush_tiny"

which causes no errors but the berry farmer´s program fails without planting a bush, and the verbose output says

MO(82,frisians_berry_farmer):   WARNING: No suitable immovable found!

How can I tell the berry farmer to pick one random type of berry bush? Is there an easy way to fix the problem, or can this only be solved by making bushes world immovables (they´re tribe immovables now), which I´d rather not do?


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