Topic: French translations modification

Atanase Topic Opener Joined: 2021-04-15, 13:33 Posts: 126 At home in WL-forums Location: Béarn (France)	Posted at: 2021-05-03, 17:04 Hello, Problem: How to correctly translate sentences of which we only know a part at a time? Example: Did not start %1$s because %2$s Completed %1$s because %2$s Skipped %1$s because %2$s The first instinct is the almost literal translation. This is what is in place now. N'a pas commencé à %1$s parce que %2$s A produit %1$s parce que %2$s N'a pas produit %1$s parce que %2$s But French is full of subtleties of spelling and pronunciation that poison our lives. When to use « le », « la », « l' », « les », .... The answer is: It depends on what follows. But we don't know what will follow. It could be « fabrication de hache », « plantation d'arbres », « lâcher d'animaux », « cuisson de pain », « élevage d’ânes », « enrôlement de soldats » … In addition, in French, one « commence à » and one « fini de », generally followed by « faire le çon sans cédille ». The solution that I propose is, first of all, to translate the starting strings by a form which allows to follow by the same article family. Example: « Did not start » becomes « N’a pas commencé » « Completed » becomes « A fini » « Skipped » becomes « A évité » Secondly, to choose the article on the character string that will replace « %1$s », Example: la fabrication de hache la plantation d’arbres les semailles de blé le façonnage de lingots l’élevage d’ânes la production d’outils la cuisson de pains le labourage et le pâturage Im waiting for your advice before putting this solution into practice. If you find cases where this solution is not applicable, please let me know. PS: We will study the case of the second unknown chain, after the “because”, when we have found a solution acceptable to all for the first. You will find the french version of this La connaissance ne vaut que si elle est partagée par le plus grand nombre. --------------------------------------- Knowledge is only valuable if it is shared by the greatest number. Top Quote

kaputtnik Joined: 2013-02-18, 20:48 Posts: 2550 OS: Archlinux Version: current master One Elder of Players Location: Germany	Posted at: 2021-05-03, 18:30 Just a side note: Recently the user impactus suggested to change those strings at all into something which describes what currently happens in a production site. E.g. a player might not be interested that producing a Fishing Rod was skipped, he is may more interested to see something like "Producing Felling Ax". Or if an input ware is missing and the economy needs a Fishing Rod: "Can't produce Fishing Rod! Reason: 1 Iron is missing" (or something like that). Top Quote

Atanase Topic Opener Joined: 2021-04-15, 13:33 Posts: 126 At home in WL-forums Location: Béarn (France)	Posted at: 2021-05-03, 19:28 I agree, kaputtnik, but I can only do what is in my "job". Less than an hour ago I had the same thought when I saw that the 'Wood Hardener' told me 'Produced Blackwood'. The only problem, if the English text changes is that you have to review ALL the translations, not just the French. I can say that I'll do it for French, but the others ....... La connaissance ne vaut que si elle est partagée par le plus grand nombre. --------------------------------------- Knowledge is only valuable if it is shared by the greatest number. Top Quote

hessenfarmer Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16 Posts: 2745 One Elder of Players Location: Bavaria	Posted at: 2021-05-03, 20:45 Well changing these strings is not trivial. as they are currently computed after a working cycle is finished. It would be hard to change this imho. Anyhow changing strings happens quite often during ongoing development, so this would not be too unfamiliar. @Atanase for the production hints tooltips the second part ("because") is even more complicated as it is in itself another congestion of different words computed at runtime from the production programs. e.g. the string might be "... the economy needs x and the economy does not need y." or "... site has x and the economy needs." and much more combinations based on the relevant sometimes complex production programs. that might lead to weird sentence constructions (we already expereinced this in German) the substrings to construct the because part are 322 to 330 and 334 in Widelands Main textdomain. Edited: 2021-05-03, 20:51 Top Quote

Atanase Topic Opener Joined: 2021-04-15, 13:33 Posts: 126 At home in WL-forums Location: Béarn (France)	Posted at: 2021-05-03, 20:55 He, he... I suspected it, that's why I started with the first part that I thought I could do without too much problem. But if I find the strings that come in the second part, I will end up finding something that will improve the existing one. Sometimes I have to read aloud to understand the meaning of sentences in French. Anyway, it is not for today. La connaissance ne vaut que si elle est partagée par le plus grand nombre. --------------------------------------- Knowledge is only valuable if it is shared by the greatest number. Top Quote

hessenfarmer Joined: 2014-12-11, 23:16 Posts: 2745 One Elder of Players Location: Bavaria	Posted at: 2021-05-03, 21:12 I believe your suggestion might work well for the first placeholder. Just for information: if necessary you might reorder the placeholders in the text for better grammar. e.g. the solution for german language is "%1 wurde übersprungen weil %2" with the verb transformed to a substantive Top Quote

Atanase Topic Opener Joined: 2021-04-15, 13:33 Posts: 126 At home in WL-forums Location: Béarn (France)	Posted at: 2021-05-04, 01:10 Yes, It could work, but I thought of the future translators and maintainers who will perhaps not be as used to handling strings as you and me, it's already complicated enough like that without asking them, in addition, to manipulate the texts. I prefer a gross syntax error to a misinterpretation which could mislead the player. I also thought about the second part, it may not be so complicated since the gender and number agreement will fall on the replacement text %2$s and therefore we will find ourselves in the same situation as now. , the 'because' allowing us to free ourselves from everything that has been said before from the point of view of agreements. Anyway, if the solution I suggest does not work, I will try yours. La connaissance ne vaut que si elle est partagée par le plus grand nombre. --------------------------------------- Knowledge is only valuable if it is shared by the greatest number. Top Quote