Topic: Empire arena and colosseum with wine

The Barbarian Arena requires strong beer to train its soldiers in evade, so wouldn't it also make sense to supply its Empire counterpart with wine? Especially since wine is really cheap to produce, since it only requires grapes. It would also make sense purely from a game logic perspective.

If the change is generally accepted, I'll be happy to make a pull request for this change.

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Wine is cheaper than beer. You don't even need extra water from the wells to make it. Its production doesn't compete with bread, either, since wine and bread don't share any ingredients.

My widelands addons: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jopANlODo41T2reHJ0zaCOMYxq_rxXP-/view?usp=sharing

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hessenfarmer wrote

I am always very reluctant to change things in the legacy tribes.
Furthermore I totally agree with @WorldSavior, the empire needs rather some help then getting any additional burden. There are still some PR under discussion how much help and in which way, however this would definitly be contraproductive
so -1 from me as well

The solution would be simple: give the Imperial soldier an extra level of training in evasion or defense. Wine can be used as an input for this.

The Empire has two fairly large training buildings, but they ultimately do relatively little. When you think of a Colosseum, you probably think of great battles or gladiators. In the game, the building is a bit of a snob because it "only" offers two training levels for evade and doesn't even require wine, while the Barbarians use strong beer, the Frisians use mead, and the Amazons use chocolate as their drink in the equivalent.

My widelands addons: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jopANlODo41T2reHJ0zaCOMYxq_rxXP-/view?usp=sharing

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From my perspective one of the advantages of widelands over S2 is that the tribes are different not only in graphics but in game mechanics as well.
I do not agree for example that barbarians and Empire have the same economic structure. They are different in many ways. Mine supplies, build materials, renewable food component and especially different fighting capabilities just to name a few.
This leads to a tribe having strengths and weaknesses, which is intended. Having the ability to cheaply train the first level of evade is one of the advantages of the empire and should be maintained.
Requiring wine would be expensive as @WorldSavior mentioned as a fully effective wine production business costs relatively much marble, it cost space, it needs tools (shovel) that are needed for foresters as well, just to name the most relevant ones. This extracosts would heavily delay soldier training for the empire and thus really heavily effect Multiplayer balance of the tribe.
Furthermore the old tribes have a legacy to keep, so in my personal view we should keep their characteristics as much as we could and be very careful to do necessary changes for balancing reasons in the least intrusive way.

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Current Empire Situation	Suggestion Rejected by	Suggestion Accepted by	Suggested Empire Situation
Arena * ( + ) = Evade 0 ---> 1 Colosseum * ( + ) = Evade 0 ---> 1 * ( ) + ( ) ) = Evade 1 ---> 2	WorldSavior Teayo hessenfarmer	MarcMcWire Teayo	Arena * * ( + ) = Evade 0 ---> 1 Colosseum * * ( + ) = Evade 0 ---> 1 * * ( ) + ( ) ) = Evade 1 ---> 2
Winery =		Teayo	Winery =

I'm more on the rejection side.
I would only support MarcMcWire's Suggestion , if wine becomes cheaper and the construction costs for the vineyards are also reduced. ( Marble columns [ 2---> 1 ] )

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