Topic: Amazon Soldier

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My widelands addons: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jopANlODo41T2reHJ0zaCOMYxq_rxXP-/view?usp=sharing

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Nordfriese wrote

I appreciate that good soldier balancing at all levels is very hard, but I don't see why we even need a change here at all…?

Of course, the current soldier works fine. I just wandered what other options would be possible and when I saw that also this options are not bad, I decided to share them.

IIRC, the very high evade of the fully trained amazon soldier (combined with her relatively low attack, and the resulting longer fights) was one of the characteristics of the tribe. So I would be reluctant to reduce this so drastically.

The reduction of needed hits is not that big. Other tribes still need significantly less hits.

tothxa wrote

If I'm not mistaken, these are pretty big changes, so I don't think this is the way to go...

Did I get the below comparison right?

parameter	current	variant 1	variant 2		atl.	bar.	emp.	fri.
attack min	1200	1600	1410		1200	1200	1300	1300
atk.b. max	1600	1650	1500		1600	1600	1500	1600
attack incr.	800	790	875		920	850	920	1006
atk. hero min	2800	3180	3160		4880	5450	4980	7336
atk. hero max	3200	3230	3250		5280	5850	5180	7636
def. base	5	2	0		6	3	5	4
def. incr.	10	15	15		8	-	-	16
def. hero	25	32	30		22	3	5	36
health base	13000	11400	11760		13500	13000	13000	12250
health incr.	2025	5450	5605		4000	3000	2100	2955
health hero	19075	27750	28575		17500	22000	21400	18160
evade base	30	28	37		30	25	30	35
evade incr.	15	10	7		17	16	16	-
evade hero	75	58	58		64	57	62	35

Well, these are just numbers. What matters is the real impact. The second variant is actually very close to the current state. It just makes the fight more balanced, a little bit shorter, reduces the need to find gold and the biggest difference is that it takes the extremely high added value of evade training and redistributes it mainly to health and also to defence (by the way I find the updated parameters AT1400-1490/880 and HE 11 715/5620 even better).

The first variant is definitely more different. All changes from the second option are valid also here. Furthermore, the basic soldier is weaker and added value of attack training is reduced. So it makes the training in Training Glades more relevant.

But true is, I didn't try this new options in a real game yet. After some testing, I could turn the variant I like the most into a new add-on probably.

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OIPUN wrote

Well, these are just numbers. What matters is the real impact. The second variant is actually very close to the current state.

OK, they're just numbers, but those numbers say that both variants are very big changes, and they are both very different from the numbers of all other tribes. Even if the actual resulting strengths come out not so different, I don't think we can ignore those numbers looking so out of line.

reduces the need to find gold

Amazons certainly don't need such advantage, they already benefit a lot from not needing iron. (see also https://www.widelands.org/forum/topic/5847/)

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untrained soldier

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and the average strength

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