Topic: Suggestion to change collector win condition

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kaputtnik Joined: 2013-02-18, 20:48 Posts: 2626 OS: Archlinux Version: current master One Elder of Players Location: Germany	Posted at: 2017-10-28, 10:10 I think it is not good that the collectors win condition results in a normal autocrat game. At least in the tournament this year it looks like if a player play like autocrat he wins. And i think it is also not good that a player who is weak in playing autocrat, has no chance against a player who is strong in playing that. It would be nice if a player could get strong on one win condition, to get a chance to win against a player who is strong in a another win condition. Of course one player could be strong in all win conditions. In my opinion it should be avoided that Collectors=Autocrat. The idea from king_of_nowhere is imho the best to avoid it: 3) Either make the time limit dependent on the map size, for example 2(square root of map area)minutes, which would give 4 hours for a 120120 map, or let humans set it. Since we have barracks, we could also disallow to build a Barrack Top Quote

GunChleoc Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56 Posts: 3317 One Elder of Players Location: RenderedRect	Posted at: 2017-10-28, 12:27 Disallowing barracks could be tough on big maps, because you will need militarysites to expand, so we need to think more about this. I am in favour of letting humans set the time limit for all win conditions - this way, we could also merge the Territorial Lord and Territorial Time win conditions. Busy indexing nil values Top Quote

WorldSavior Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10 Posts: 2145 OS: Linux Version: Recent tournament version One Elder of Players Location: Germany	Posted at: 2017-10-28, 12:38 kaputtnik wrote: I think it is not good that the collectors win condition results in a normal autocrat game. Depends totally on the map. Try "Big Eden" At least in the tournament this year it looks like if a player play like autocrat he wins. Actually one can defend much better on desert tournament than on other maps, if one knows how to do it In my opinion it should be avoided that Collectors=Autocrat. The idea from king_of_nowhere is imho the best to avoid it: 3) Either make the time limit dependent on the map size, for example 2(square root of map area)minutes, which would give 4 hours for a 120120 map, or let humans set it. Letting the players set a time is a good idea. 4 hours could stay a default time... Since we have barracks, we could also disallow to build a Barrack GunChleoc wrote: Disallowing barracks could be tough on big maps, because you will need militarysites to expand, so we need to think more about this. Yes, that's right. I am in favour of letting humans set the time limit for all win conditions - this way, we could also merge the Territorial Lord and Territorial Time win conditions. +1 And what about implementing a "peaceful mode"? All what it would need is forbidding all attacks. Edited: 2017-10-28, 12:38 Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked Top Quote

kaputtnik Joined: 2013-02-18, 20:48 Posts: 2626 OS: Archlinux Version: current master One Elder of Players Location: Germany	Posted at: 2017-10-28, 13:30 The suggestion to disallow Barracks was meant as a joke Top Quote

teppo Joined: 2012-01-30, 09:42 Posts: 425 Tribe Member	Posted at: 2017-10-29, 11:49 kaputtnik wrote: think it is not good that the collectors win condition results in a normal autocrat game To me it just adds some pepper to the mix: Training soldiers is stupid, not training them is dangerous. The suggestion to disallow Barracks was meant as a joke Disallowing barracks would be a bit weird, but disallowing attack would change the collectors a lot. Then it would be first a grab-resources run, then fight against the clock to make superior treasury. Edited: 2017-10-29, 11:51 Top Quote

king_of_nowhere Topic Opener Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35 Posts: 1668 One Elder of Players	Posted at: 2017-10-29, 14:46 kaputtnik wrote: I think it is not good that the collectors win condition results in a normal autocrat game. At least in the tournament this year it looks like if a player play like autocrat he wins. And i think it is also not good that a player who is weak in playing autocrat, has no chance against a player who is strong in playing that. And I'd point out that I picked desert tournament for this win condition specifically because it is a map where it's easy to defend, because of that stretch of rough land in the middle. So making a bit less soldiers than the enemy and try to win by collectors mode was still a feasible strategy. On the other hand, it was still possible to attack the opponent; I wanted both strategies (accumulate goods or attack an enemy) to be feasible. Turned out one of them was more feasible than the other. in retrospect, trident of fire, the map we used for the final in 2015, would have probably been a better pick. Still, the colector condition needs to be fixed, it can't be balanced on only a handful of maps. Top Quote

teppo Joined: 2012-01-30, 09:42 Posts: 425 Tribe Member	Posted at: 2017-10-29, 16:20 king_of_nowhere wrote: Still, the colector condition needs to be fixed, it can't be balanced on only a handful of maps. Collectors does not work on small maps now. We just need to agree on the cure. Top Quote

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