Topic: "Northmen" Tribe Page

Yes, frisian heroes are very good against any enemy. I have made a table of the results of some 100000 rounds of fighting. Frisians are not the only unbalanced tribe – for example, in these fights a barbarian level 9 has a chance of 83% to kill an atlantean hero, whereas an imperial level 10 only has a 33% chance against an atlantean level 5 soldier. So, the Frisians don´t have to be perfectly balanced to keep Widelands on its current balancing degree. (Yes, these values are quite different from the tables einstein13 posted above. But the fighting algorithm is the same.)

Frisian level 10 soldiers nearly always kill bar/emp/atl heroes. But their rookies are actually very weak against other untrained soldiers (11% against barbarians, 25% against empire, 18% against atlanteans). This fits with the fact that frisians are supposed to be stronger in late game – excellent heroes and weak rookies emphasise that.

And when I said "least unbalanced", I meant the sum of the differences of all chances of level X vs level Y of all tribe combinations with and without frisians. A fight between two medium-skilled soldier is quite balanced. The balance isn´t that great, true – any suggestions of better strength values are welcome.

Another question: I now started making some better (Frisian-looking) building images. I downloaded one of the blender files of the building images in trunk, but I couldn´t open it. What blender version is needed?

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Nordfriese wrote:

I just pushed a new revision with these changes:

• The charcoal kiln consumes 2 clay and 5 logs to make 2 coal. I decided against upgrades because it would always be better to enhance the building immediately, which is annoying.

Why better? Currently, that is not the case.

• The sentinel is more expensive now (4 bricks, 2 logs, 1 reed) and has a conquer radius of 7. The wooden tower cost only 4 logs and 1 reed now and conquers only 5.

The sentinel is a small building, I guess. With a conquer radius of 7 it could spoil some maps which are constructed that way that the maximal conquer radius of 6 (small buildings) plays an important role. If the sentinel would be a medium building, that wouldn't be a problem.

So, in general, it might be always a little bit problematic if new tribes have military buildings which are breaking the current records. For example, I think that the highest sight range should stay 21, and the highest conquer radius 12. For balancing.

If new tribes will be at one category much better than other tribes, this could lead to the fact that a lot of current maps will be too bad for the old tribes (in comparison to the new tribes)...

Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked

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I am very, very, VERY sorry. But the algorithm used to create this table is correct. It uses exactly the same way of simulating a battle as einstein´s calculator. I double-checked the code and found nothing wrong. You can find the source code (Java) for the program used to make the table here and the link to the code of the program that found the least unbalanced soldier stats here. If anyone finds something wrong with the code, I´ll acknowledge my mistake. Until then, I cannot disbelieve my statistics.

(When the program says "the chance of a soldier of level N", it means the average chances of all possible soldiers with N promotions. Several more simulations showed results that do not significantly differ from the linked table.)

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If anyone presents a set of soldier strength attributes and proves with einstein13´s or my calculator that they are better than the current values, I´ll use them. Until then, I´ll keep the current values.

I pushed a new revision with several changes to production site logic. They include:

• slightly lower build cost for aqua farm (8 bricks instead of 10)
• faster clay production (because it runs out quickly when using seafaring and charcoal burners unless you build 5 clay burners for every brick burner)
• charcoal kiln now uses 1 clay + 3 logs = 1 coal (before: 2 clay + 5 logs = 2 coal)
• slightly slower forester; slightly faster woodcutter
• more intelligent tannery when meat runs out
• weaving mill can store more wares
• lower working areas for berry farmer, fruit collector, bee-keeper
• slightly higher working radius for hunter

Last but not least, I made frisian-looking images for the farm.

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where is einstein with his calculations?

just eyeballing it, I think it would work with healt per level from 50 to 30 and attack from 10 to 9. I'd like to keep defence high because I like at least one tribe with really high defence.

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