Topic: "Northmen" Tribe Page

Recruiting a new soldier costs 1 basic sword and 1×fur clothes. The defence promotions cost 1×studded fur clothes and 1×golden fur clothes. The life promotions cost 1 helmet and 1 golden helmet. The attack promotions cost 3 long swords, 3 curved swords and 3 double-edged swords in total (plus food for everything except recruiting).

I don´t really like my second suggestion, because, as fuchur said, it is very similar to empire. The first option only ensures that the basic sword and the basic helmet are produced more frequently when stock is low and supply slow; the player doesn´t get more control over what is produced. I think suggestion 3 actually increases complexity, because all swords (except basic sword) are used for 2 levels – long swords for attack levels 1 and 4, curved for 2 and 5, double for 3 and 6. So, the weapons can´t really be called 'basic' or 'advanced' (the helmets can, though).

In the games I played so far, my small training camp always had plenty of food, but not enough weapons. The only equipment it had enough of were studded fur clothes. So, if I entered battle before I had lots of time to build a full economy, I usually had level 1 soldiers with a defence promotion. The opponent usually had level 2 soldiers (double evade training). This is why I want to make it possible at least to give the soldiers the first health promotion cheaply – so Frisians have cheaper level 2 soldiers, like barbarians and empire. I can´t decide yet whether I prefer suggestion 1 (which does nothing but this) or 3 (which adds some extra complexity, since Frisians are soo easy and not at all complicated now ).

Top

Quote

Well, the 3 highest attack promotions cost 2 swords each. The three lowest cost 1 sword each.

Nordfriese wrote:

Recruiting a new soldier costs 1 basic sword and 1×fur clothes. The defence promotions cost 1×studded fur clothes and 1×golden fur clothes. The life promotions cost 1 helmet and 1 golden helmet. The attack promotions cost 3 long swords, 3 curved swords and 3 double-edged swords in total (plus food for everything except recruiting).

Thanks for the informations

I don´t really like my second suggestion, because, as fuchur said, it is very similar to empire.

Actually a comparison with the atlanteans would fit much better: They have also an armor smithy which produces exactly 2 items and an additional building which produces clothes (weaving mill), while the frisians have two buildings there (seamstress and weaving mill, or was it seamstress and master seamstress, don't know.)

Let's take a look again at the second suggestion:

• Have 2 buildings: Weaponsmithy produces Basic Sword – Long Sword – Curved Sword – Double-edged Sword; Helmsmithy produces Helmet and Golden Helmet.

What I don't like here is the fact that they will produce 3 times more basic swords than needed. They will not stop with that before the economy limits of basic swords are reached.

To solve this problem, the weapon smithy could have the following cycle instead:

S1 - S2 - S3 - S4 - S2 - S2 - S3 - S3 - S4 - S4

Let's call that option 5. (option 4 will follow later.) It looks a little bit complicated, but in fact it's not complicated and I'd prefer that instead of option 2.

The first option only ensures that the basic sword and the basic helmet are produced more frequently when stock is low and supply slow; the player doesn´t get more control over what is produced.

I quote the first option again:

• Change cycle order to Basic Sword – Helmet – Long Sword – Curved Sword – Golden Helmet – Double-edged Sword.

For me that looks even worse than option 2: Not only basic swords are produced three times more than needed, but also both kinds of helmets (until the economy settings of them are reached)

But the advantage is that there is only one building instead of two which can mean less complications. Let me introduce option 4:

Change cycle order to S1-S2-H1-S3-S4-H2-S2-S2-S3-S3-S4-S4

or something similar.

Looks quite complicated, but in fact it's not a big deal, and I like it more than option 1.

So this option means a longer cycle but one building type less, while the cycle in option 5 is a little bit shorter, but you need 2 types of buildings here. And this would mean that the Frisians would need 4 types of buildings which produce their soldier items, while the atlanteans need 3 (and one of it, the weaving mill, is more like an building material producer which you need anyway) and the barbarians&empire need only 2 (ax factory is not obligatory).

Edit: So I'd vote for option 4, if there are not some arguments against that which I didn't see yet

I think suggestion 3 actually increases complexity, because all swords (except basic sword) are used for 2 levels – long swords for attack levels 1 and 4, curved for 2 and 5, double for 3 and 6. So, the weapons can´t really be called 'basic' or 'advanced' (the helmets can, though).

Quotation of #3:

• Basic Armoursmithy produces Basic Sword – Helmet – Long Sword; Advanced Armoursmithy produces Curved Sword – Golden Helmet – Double-edged Sword. The advanced armoursmithy is upgraded from the basic armoursmithy and needs a master blacksmith (it is no longer able to produce the "old" items).

Seems to be super complicated. And it offers the same problems like option 1.

In the games I played so far, my small training camp always had plenty of food, but not enough weapons. The only equipment it had enough of were studded fur clothes. So, if I entered battle before I had lots of time to build a full economy, I usually had level 1 soldiers with a defence promotion. The opponent usually had level 2 soldiers (double evade training). This is why I want to make it possible at least to give the soldiers the first health promotion cheaply – so Frisians have cheaper level 2 soldiers, like barbarians and empire. I can´t decide yet whether I prefer suggestion 1 (which does nothing but this) or 3 (which adds some extra complexity, since Frisians are soo easy and not at all complicated now ).

I'm not sure if they are really so uncomplicated

Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked

Top

Quote

I often play around with target quantities, but nonetheless my armoursmithy always seems to produce the wares I don´t need. Additional control over the rate of basic and advanced weapons would be nice…

One reason why I don´t like option 2 is that there would be 1 building for attack promotions only and 1 building for health promotions only. Having each building produce weapons and helmets adds a complexity which (in my opinion) makes the game more interesting. Option 5 is better than option 2, but I´m still not happy with it.

WorldSaviour has a point about option 1. Option 4 looks good but it seems to produce too many higher-grade weapons. In some quick games it is not possible to promote the soldiers to high attack levels; instead, lots of rookies are needed. It would take ages for every basic sword to be produced. So, I propose the following cycle (let´s call it option 4a) instead: S1 – H1 – S2 – S3 – S4 – H2 – 2S2 – 2S3 – 2S4. "2Sx" means producing 2 swords of grade x at once – this cycle will be skipped if resources are not abundant. If there are lots of resources, it will work just like option 4 (focused on training heroes); if resources are low, the rate of lower-grade swords and basic helmets (for many level 1-2 soldiers) increases.

I can´t decide yet whether I prefer option 3 or 4a. The most important difference is in my opinion that option 3 allows the player to influence the rate of high to low weapons and helmets whereas option 4a 'intelligently' sets it dependant on the amount of resources available (could be made even more intelligent by including checks like 'if economy needs iron/gold', just another idea…).

On a side note, I think it would be good not to let the mead brewery produce beer any more. This only follows the logic of the honey bread bakery, which doesn´t produce normal bread, and the master seamstress, which no longer sews normal fur clothes.

Top

Quote

Nordfriese wrote:

WorldSaviour has a point about option 1. Option 4 looks good but it seems to produce too many higher-grade weapons. In some quick games it is not possible to promote the soldiers to high attack levels; instead, lots of rookies are needed. It would take ages for every basic sword to be produced.

Well, actually you can just set the economy settings of the helmets and non-basic swords to zero, so the smithies will skip them without loosing any time. So they will produce only basic swords and make no additional breaks between this....

So, I propose the following cycle (let´s call it option 4a) instead: S1 – H1 – S2 – S3 – S4 – H2 – 2S2 – 2S3 – 2S4. "2Sx" means producing 2 swords of grade x at once – this cycle will be skipped if resources are not abundant. If there are lots of resources, it will work just like option 4 (focused on training heroes); if resources are low, the rate of lower-grade swords and basic helmets (for many level 1-2 soldiers) increases.

... so, this is maybe not even necessary

I can´t decide yet whether I prefer option 3 or 4a. The most important difference is in my opinion that option 3 allows the player to influence the rate of high to low weapons and helmets whereas option 4a 'intelligently' sets it dependant on the amount of resources available (could be made even more intelligent by including checks like 'if economy needs iron/gold', just another idea…).

Well, setting the economy settings of certain weapons to zero solves a lot of problems, so option 3 will maybe not be needed

fuchur wrote:

(what's the plural of ax?)

I cannot find any in the dictionary. So maybe there exists no plural. Funny language

Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked

Top

Quote

from my perspective one of the problems is that controlling the weapons quantity with the economy settings is that it forces the production site to skip. As skipping is time consuming as well (especially in a long cycle) this is to be taken into acount. Therefore I'd prefer still option 3 which gives you more control in cost of additional building material and the time for the blacksmith to get experience.
Another thing is that I would prefer the large training arena to accept 4 of each weapon due to it consuming always 2 weapons.

Top

Quote