Topic: "Northmen" Tribe Page

Nordfriese wrote:

Since we don't have a shield ware for the Frisians, I think the animation should match that. Or the soldiers need shields instead of helmets as wares.

Empire soldiers also use shields without having a ware "shield"…

Yes, I was aware about that. But only because other developers make mistakes it doesn't mean that you should make mistakes, too

Well... Since when have Frisian soldiers shields? I think that only few shields work together with swords in two hands - or even no shields at all

And evading doesn't mean: Soldier blocks with a shield, it means that the soldier makes a step to evade

Good point… But the animation cannot be a perfect match of the supposed fighting style here – either all soldiers are shown with one sword, which is incorrect for the heroes, or all get two, which is wrong for rookies.

The best solution would be to have different images for various skill levels, but I imagine this would be more trouble to code than it´s worth…

When you told that the soldiers can have one or two swords I thought that you would be aware of the fact that one animation wouldn't be enough.

But shields have a different meaning here than for atlanteans. These use shields for defence, which means atl shields only reduce the damage taken. It seems to me a shield should rather catch the blow completely before it can hurt the soldier?

No, if a barbarian with a big fat ax jumps into your shield, it is still painfull

Frisian soldiers have iron and gold on their armour for defence, so the purpose of the shield could be what the frisian chieftain implies in scenario 1: "We do not train soldiers to evade attacks; a true warrior can block his opponent´s blows instead of jumping away like a coward."

So why is it called "evade" and not "blocking"?

So they could use the shield to adsorb a blow completely without suffering injury. (That would also be a good explanation why their evade will always remain at such a low level .) In this case, they might have the second sword hanging from their belt, and perhaps they exchange the sword after an attack.

Well, i don't think that this would make that much sense

Or maybe they´ll always wield two swords and no shield, and attack with the left and catch blows on their right blade?

As using two swords increases the attack value, it would make sense if they would use both for attack.... But at least it's right that swords could be used for blocking, even though it's easier to evade

Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked

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A possibility to define skill-level-dependant animations would be the best solution for this. The number of different soldiers is another question: Have just two sets of animations, one for attack 0-3 and one for attack 4-6 (I´d be happy to make these two sets of animations here) – or have one set for every combination of attack|health|defence, to show the different kinds of weapons, helmets and shields/furs? The latter would rather be a lot of work (63 sets of 13 animations each for frisians, I think), and since all images are quite small, the difference might not even be visible unless you now what to look for…

When you told that the soldiers can have one or two swords I thought that you would be aware of the fact that one animation wouldn't be enough.

Atlantean heroes get an attack increase for using a double trident, yet I´ve never seen one fighting with both ends of it… Barbarian rookies don´t have a helmet yet, but are seen wearing one anyway…

So why is it called "evade" and not "blocking"?

Perhaps no one thought of a tribe yet where soldiers are too proud to jump away, and are strong enough to block any blow without being injured?

How about this kind of evade animation, then: The soldier doesn´t get a shield; instead of evading, he blocks the attack with his sword(s). A failed "evade" would be to hold the sword in a way that can´t deflect the blow.

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Nordfriese wrote:

A possibility to define skill-level-dependant animations would be the best solution for this. The number of different soldiers is another question: Have just two sets of animations, one for attack 0-3 and one for attack 4-6 (I´d be happy to make these two sets of animations here) – or have one set for every combination of attack|health|defence, to show the different kinds of weapons, helmets and shields/furs? The latter would rather be a lot of work (63 sets of 13 animations each for frisians, I think), and since all images are quite small, the difference might not even be visible unless you now what to look for…

Making many different animations just for little details wouldn't justify its costs...

When you told that the soldiers can have one or two swords I thought that you would be aware of the fact that one animation wouldn't be enough.

Atlantean heroes get an attack increase for using a double trident, yet I´ve never seen one fighting with both ends of it… Barbarian rookies don´t have a helmet yet, but are seen wearing one anyway…

Yes, you mention two more problems...

So why is it called "evade" and not "blocking"?

Perhaps no one thought of a tribe yet where soldiers are too proud to jump away, and are strong enough to block any blow without being injured?

How about this kind of evade animation, then: The soldier doesn´t get a shield; instead of evading, he blocks the attack with his sword(s). A failed "evade" would be to hold the sword in a way that can´t deflect the blow.

Sounds better than the stuff with the shields...

Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked

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Have you been using trunk with frisians datadir, or did you compile the branch? I should have mentioned earlier that I merged this branch (which is not in trunk yet) into the frisians branch because I needed it for the new berry bushes. I think this breaks the planting programs of some farmers if you use trunk. Compiling the frisian branch should fix this…

Graphics

I uploaded two batches of worker animations. The following workers (most of which are left-handed because I felt Widelands has too few left-handed workers ) are complete now: Baker, Master Baker, Blacksmith, Master Blacksmith, Brewer, Master Brewer, Carrier, Charcoal Burner, Landlady, Miner, Master Miner, Reindeer Breeder, Scout, Seamstress, Master Seamstress, Smelter, Smoker.

I´m now working on the remaining workers; I´ll leave the soldier as he is as long as there are still workers or buildings without animations. I´ll finally start with the buildings when all the (other) workers are done.

(I´m still experimenting with various ways to make brick walls and thatched roofs, as well as where to put the player color, as it turns out that window/door frames don´t look that nice with some colours.)

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Ok got it. My problems is I can't compile as I am on windows. Will look into appveyor for the correct build. Slowly it's getting harder to keep the oversight of all the insatallations I have to run. Is there any plan when to incorporate this planting branch into trunk? I think at least the branch will break savegame compatibility.

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