Topic: Balance issue with the imperials
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megalive Topic Opener
Joined: 2010-04-12, 22:16
Posts: 12  Pry about Widelands |
Posted at: 2010-04-18, 13:50
At this moment i am playing with the imperials. When you have no more stone or see stone just outside your terrain the game ends .... The imperials rely that much on stone that when you have a map with not much stone around you the game end suddenly. I have multiple thoughts about the solution for this 1 the much work costing version Create a sand digger (you can dig sand on any place) stone maker. sand + coal you can greate some kind of stone. (this way you have for the imperials an unlimited outmount of stone) 2 Simple solution the most simple militaire building does not rely on stone. (you can grow and find the place with the stone ..) 
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ixprefect
Joined: 2009-02-27, 14:28
Posts: 367  Tribe Member |
Posted at: 2010-04-18, 16:03
I agree that being forced to use a limited resource like stone just to expand your territory is pretty rough. However, mines already provide a way to get infinite stones, don't they?
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megalive Topic Opener
Joined: 2010-04-12, 22:16
Posts: 12 Pry about Widelands |
Posted at: 2010-04-18, 17:14
If mines are the way for stone. Then the maps should be build that you can reach a mine anyhow. Now i have a game where i can not reach anystone ....
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SirVer
Joined: 2009-02-19, 15:18
Posts: 1440  One Elder of Players Location: Germany - Munich |
Posted at: 2010-04-18, 18:00
neither the barracks (for exanding) nor the quarry (for stones) need any stone. I cannot see your problem.
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megalive Topic Opener
Joined: 2010-04-12, 22:16
Posts: 12 Pry about Widelands |
Posted at: 2010-04-18, 18:03
your correct :). i had made a mistake with the guardpost ... that requires stone
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megalive Topic Opener
Joined: 2010-04-12, 22:16
Posts: 12 Pry about Widelands |
Posted at: 2010-04-20, 23:48
I did a small calculation (manual) based on the fact that i wanted too train my soldiers good and had a continue stream of good for the training. I ended up needing around 300 stones from the map with the imperials. So a map needs too close by the starting point around 300+ stones avaible ... I did not calc militairy buildings. nor i did do the calc with marble mines. Both require more stone I showed up why i screwed with this people too many times in my personal games :). Here below the calculation. Proberly requires a lot of discussion. But it explains why there is a need for a nice balance check. Maybe it is not a prio 1. yet it should be done before the game is finished. going for end result training soldiers collosseum and trainings camp not putting in as requirement quary or saw mill , woodcutter as most buildings need them for easy calculation trunk and wood are both 1 wood (ie 1 trunk creates 1 wood) Stone and marble are both 1 stone (ie 50% chance of stone or marmer out of a mine or quarry) marblecolum is 2 stone (requires 2 marbles) Only wood and stone are calculated the colleseum -> 14 stone , 4 wood Requires: smelthing works , weaving mill Requires for running : Bakery , piggery , fisherman update from arena arena: 17 stone ,6 wood As immeadly updated too colleseum we do not veriry what i needs too run. Trainingscamp: 16 stone , 6 wood requires: smelthing works , weaving mill Requires for running :piggery, Armour Smithy, fishery, Weapon Smithy, bakery Shared buildings (only used for building ) (so only 1 of each needed as in the end things get build) quary: 3 wood Lumberjack's House : 1 wood Requires for running: forester Forester's House : 2 wood , 1 stone Requires for running: Lumberjack's House Saw mill : 2 stone , 2 wood Requires for running : Lumberjack's House Smelting works 5 stone , 2 wood Requires for running : gold mine , cool mine , iron mine Weaving mill : 7 stone , 1 wood Requires for running : Sheepfarm sheepfarm : 2 stone , 4 wood requires for running: farm and well \ gold mine : 6 wood Requires for running : winery, tavern cool mine : 6 wood Requires for running : brewery, tavern iron mine : 6 wood Requires for running : brewery, tavern tavern: 3 stone , 2 wood Requires for running : backery, Fisher's House, Piggery brewery : 2 stone , 4 wood Requires for running : well , farm winery: 5 stone , 1 wood Requires for running: Vineyard Vineyard: 8 stone , 1 wood brewery : 2 stone , 4 wood Requires for running : well , farm backery: 2 stone , 5 wood Requires for running :Mill, well Fisher's house : 1 stone , 2 wood piggery : 6 stone : 2 wood Requires for running: farm , well farm : 8 stone , 2 wood well : 3 stone , 1 wood mill :6 stone , 1 wood Requires for running : farm Stonemason's House: 2 stone , 4 wood Requires for running : quarry ---------------------------------------- Buildings used for production Backery needs there own well and own mill too run at 100%. --------- backery: 2 stone , 5 wood Requires for running :Mill, well farm : 8 stone , 2 wood well : 3 stone , 1 wood mill :6 stone , 1 wood Requires for running : farm piggery : 6 stone : 2 wood Requires for running: farm , well piggerye needs own farm and well too run at 100% farm : 8 stone , 2 wood well : 3 stone , 1 wood Fisher's house : 1 stone , 2 wood piggery : 6 stone : 2 wood Requires for running: farm , well piggerye needs own farm and well too run at 100% farm : 8 stone , 2 wood well : 3 stone , 1 wood Fisher's house : 1 stone , 2 wood Backery needs there own well and own mill too run at 100%.backery: 2 stone , 5 wood Requires for running :Mill, well farm : 8 stone , 2 wood well : 3 stone , 1 wood mill :6 stone , 1 wood Requires for running : farm Weapon Smithy 9 stone , 2 wood Requures for running coal mine , smelting works , saw mill coal mine : 6 wood Requires for running : brewery, tavern gold mine : 6 wood Requires for running : winery, tavern coal mine : 6 wood Requires for running : brewery, tavern iron mine : 6 wood Requires for running : brewery, tavern Smelting works 5 stone , 2 wood Requires for running : gold mine , cool mine , iron mine Lumberjack's House : 1 wood Requires for running: forester Forester's House : 2 wood , 1 stone Requires for running: Lumberjack's House Saw mill : 2 stone , 2 wood Requires for running : Lumberjack's House ( 2 brewery's needed ? not sure here) brewery : 2 stone , 4 wood Requires for running : well , farm farm : 8 stone , 2 wood well : 3 stone , 1 wood winery: 5 stone , 1 wood Requires for running: Vineyard Vineyard: 8 stone , 1 wood tavern: 3 stone , 2 wood Requires for running : backery, Fisher's House, Piggery backery: 2 stone , 5 wood Requires for running :Mill, well well : 3 stone , 1 wood mill :6 stone , 1 wood Requires for running : farm farm : 8 stone , 2 wood Fisher's house : 1 stone , 2 wood piggery : 6 stone : 2 wood Requires for running: farm , well farm : 8 stone , 2 wood well : 3 stone , 1 wood Armour Smithy coal mine : 6 wood Requires for running : brewery, tavern gold mine : 6 wood Requires for running : winery, tavern coal mine : 6 wood Requires for running : brewery, tavern iron mine : 6 wood Requires for running : brewery, tavern Smelting works 5 stone , 2 wood Requires for running : gold mine , cool mine , iron mine brewery : 2 stone , 4 wood Requires for running : well , farm farm : 8 stone , 2 wood well : 3 stone , 1 wood winery: 5 stone , 1 wood Requires for running: Vineyard Vineyard: 8 stone , 1 wood tavern: 3 stone , 2 wood Requires for running : backery, Fisher's House, Piggery backery: 2 stone , 5 wood Requires for running :Mill, well well : 3 stone , 1 wood mill :6 stone , 1 wood Requires for running : farm farm : 8 stone , 2 wood Fisher's house : 1 stone , 2 wood piggery : 6 stone : 2 wood Requires for running: farm , well farm : 8 stone , 2 wood well : 3 stone , 1 wood Weaving mill : 7 stone , 1 wood Requires for running : Sheepfarm sheepfarm : 2 stone , 4 wood requires for running: farm and well farm : 8 stone , 2 wood well : 3 stone , 1 wood Edited: 2010-04-20, 23:49
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SirVer
Joined: 2009-02-19, 15:18
Posts: 1440 One Elder of Players Location: Germany - Munich |
Posted at: 2010-04-21, 09:28
I am sorry, I can't make anything from what you wrote. What is the message you want to get over?
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Astuur
Joined: 2009-02-28, 10:08
Posts: 733 One Elder of Players Location: Frankfurt / Germany |
Posted at: 2010-04-21, 09:28
To sum it all up: Yes, the Imperials are not the easy to play when you start a game. This is especially true when you play a small map (where you contact other enemy tribes early) and when you have limited space or limited stone around you. Food production is crucial, too, since you can neither breed fish nor venison.
Once you do have a decent economy going, they're a fine tribe and damn competitive.
I like them Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills.
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Nasenbaer
Joined: 2009-02-21, 18:17
Posts: 826 One Elder of Players Location: Germany |
Posted at: 2010-04-21, 16:12
Before discussing further on balancing I want to see a real calculation!!!! Sorry but your list is simply wrong: A farm does not cost 8 stone, neither does the traningscamp cost 16 stone - I did not look further as this is a waste of my time.
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megalive Topic Opener
Joined: 2010-04-12, 22:16
Posts: 12 Pry about Widelands |
Posted at: 2010-04-21, 17:18
For getting the balance right first simplify.... And simpliefied too just stone and wood (check the post here) ........ And i am not going too make a impossible too understand calculation ... Unless people agree there is a balance issue and there should be worked on it. Then i will make a excel sheet with all kind of calculations in it and with all details you need ... Not spending many hours on a sheet that is not needed. On the map you have 5 types of resources A stone -> can become stone or marble B trees -> can be used for wood or trunks C Iron / Coal / Gold -> mining resources A farm cost 2 wood 2 stone (becomes 2 stone on the map) 2 marble (becomes 2 stone on the map) 2 marble columes (becomes 4 stone on the map) Calc back too wat is on the map A farm cost 2 trees and 8 stone A traningscamp cost 5 gold (becomes 5 coals and 5 gold on the map) 3 wood (become 3 wood on the map) 4 marble (becomes 4 stone on the map) 2 cloth (becomes no resources on the map) 4 trunk (becomes 4 wood on the map) 2 stone (becomes 2 stone on the map) 5 colums (becomes 10 stone on the map) Calc back too wat is on the map A Trainings camp cost 7 wood 16 stone 5 coals 5 gold
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