Topic: Empire arena and colosseum with wine

hessenfarmer wrote

MarkMcWire wrote

After 6 hours gameplay I had 400 units of wine in my warehouses.

just to clarify: the reason to decline the change was not the long game. It was the short and intermediate game relevant for multiplayer.

I almost only play territorial lord or defeat all win conditions in long single-player duels against AI or watching AI-to-AI-matches. Since the AI ​​doesn't dismantle buildings that produce superfluous products, the warehouses quickly become overstocked with wine. When I play myself, I simply demolish the buildings as soon as I have enough wares.

The problem is that wine is only needed for gold mines or marble mines, and both are secondary commodities. Once you've built all the important buildings, you no longer need marble, and the mines also cease operations. Gold is only needed in conjunction with iron for the armaments industry. So, the bottleneck there is more bread and beer for the coal and iron ore mines.

Wine therefore quickly becomes a completely useless commodity. That's why I suggested using wine for training soldiers, because otherwise it's just a disposable commodity. It takes up space in the warehouse and on the roads and has no economic benefit. That's why I wrote that wine is "cheap." It's practically the least important commodity in the empire's entire economy.

My widelands addons: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jopANlODo41T2reHJ0zaCOMYxq_rxXP-/view?usp=sharing

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kaputtnik wrote

MarkMcWire wrote

The problem is that wine is only needed for gold mines or marble mines, and both are secondary commodities. Once you've built all the important buildings, you no longer need marble,

That's not true, Empire need marble and marble columns for Ports, Tower, Castle and Fortress.

I think this will get an endless discussion. So this is my last post on this topic.

Marble is much easier to obtain from a quarry than from a mine. At least when it comes to territorial expansion. And even if you operate mines to extract marble, you'll have a sufficient supply of wine in the meantime. Because the winery doesn't stop working if the economy no longer needs wine. This requirement is missing from the program. That's why I recently started a pull request to change that too. Wine is a cheap commodity because it is constantly produced without pause and without necessity and because it is only needed for the mines whose output is not needed in large quantities.

My widelands addons: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jopANlODo41T2reHJ0zaCOMYxq_rxXP-/view?usp=sharing

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To me your arguments seem to boil down to "This fits to my style of gameplay, on the maps I like to play on". And this is fine for an add-on, which is exactly what add-ons are for. But your arguments do not generalize to most games, which is why I agree with previous posts saying strongly -1 to the proposal.

Marble is easier to quarry than mine? That's true if you have enough rocks, but on most maps you'll run out of rocks way too early and then have no choice but to mine it.

Less wine is needed than beer? Well don't build so many wineries, a small number can supply a lot of mines. Stop or dismantle them if you have too much wine and grapes clogging up your roads, like you would do with wells or farms. Or build more consumers and scale your economy. And surplus wares sitting idly in warehouses can under no circumstances harm your economy in any way as storage space is infinite, how would they?

The parallel to other tribes isn't valid IMO. If all tribes' economies are more or less the same, why bother having different tribes at all. Having several of them is all about making them different from each other, to add broad variety in gameplay principles.

Wine is especially scarce in the early game, before you have set up the horribly expensive winery and vineyard. But that's exactly when the Empire's cheap evade training can kick off, giving the Empire a much-needed early-game advantage. So your proposal would hit the Empire at a time when wine is not plentiful yet and make their early game harder than it is already.

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