Topic: Empire "Re-Roofing" Project

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Astuur Joined: 2009-02-28, 10:08 Posts: 733 One Elder of Players Location: Frankfurt / Germany	Posted at: 2011-08-17, 09:21 Very, very nice, Chuck! Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills. I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino). Top Quote

SirVer Joined: 2009-02-19, 15:18 Posts: 1440 One Elder of Players Location: Germany - Munich	Posted at: 2011-08-17, 09:36 maaan, it's so good to have you back! Top Quote

chuckw Topic Opener Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23 Posts: 945 One Elder of Players Location: New York - USA	Posted at: 2011-08-18, 01:38 Next in line is the bakery. Here is the Before: and here is my new offering: New material for the roof, oven and greenery. Remodeled the table and building interior. I'm still playing with the working animation. and the build sequence: Comments always welcome. Edit: These animations have been pushed to trunk in rev #5938 The working animations for the bakery have been pushed with rev #5939 Edited: 2011-08-18, 03:00 I see little people. Top Quote

chuckw Topic Opener Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23 Posts: 945 One Elder of Players Location: New York - USA	Posted at: 2011-08-18, 07:40 Smelting_works - Old image: New idle image: and one of the new working frames: These along with new build animation are in the development trunk now as of rev #5940 I see little people. Top Quote

Venatrix Joined: 2010-10-05, 20:31 Posts: 447 Tribe Member Location: Germany	Posted at: 2011-08-18, 07:54 I just had a look at the new buildings and working animations. :-) The only one, that I find disturbing is the working animation of the armour smithy, when the harnishes, shields and helmets jump into existence and back to nonexistence. I just dont have an idea, how to make it better, Im afraid. Two is the oddest prime. Top Quote

Astuur Joined: 2009-02-28, 10:08 Posts: 733 One Elder of Players Location: Frankfurt / Germany	Posted at: 2011-08-18, 10:04 Hi Chuck -- that is a bit more than just a "re-roofing" isn't it Thanks for the new working animation of the bakery! It's very nice to finally have that. I have tried to get the files from your link with my web browser, but had trouble with the conf and the menu.png. I edited the conf manually but the menu.png I cannot obtain. I have installed the files for the animation in the game and tested a bit: Here are my comments: Canvas: Any particular reason, why you have enlarged the convas from 97x78 to 100x100? You don't seem to use the added space for anything. It leads to the phenomenon that the bakery is incorrectly placed in existing savegames; but newly built ones, are fine. Roof: looks definitely better with the new texture! I also like the more protruding central beam. Trees: look better in the darker variant but they don't give enough contrast against "wiese?". Maybe you can try with a stronger contrast but a lighter shade of green? Smoke: Yeah, now it's coming out of the chimney, not helplessly hovering around it! Chuck - I really like how you pay attention to such details, and go out of your way to make things better! Door: I like your idea about opening the doors; you can use that for closing now, if ever we have a "sleeping" state, or even with the idle animation. BTW - we need a new bakery_i_00.png also; it should perhaps show the door closed and possible a flap on the oven. Windows: (shade inside the building). There is something wrong with this, Chuck. It isn't dark enough and has a strange bluish tint. Please compare to the house shadow outside! Actually it looks more like the house had curtains! Chimney texture: looks nice as is, but should really not get any rougher. Oven: very thoughful! I just doesn't make sense to have the interior in white. Not with a used oven! On a side note: You could have made your job easier with an oven door, or horizontal flap. Normally an oven needs one if you want to bake, not toast :). But that is not really important. Depending on the working animation for the baker, you may want an oven door that can be openend, however, and you also might want it closed for "Idle" and "sleeping", maybe. Socle: You have replaced the combed beams at the eastern edge with a miter it seems, should not the western edge be matching? Table: Good thinking! Instead of simply re-using the tavern stuff (bench and table, which make no sense here!) You see, that is also part of the term you coined Lego-look. I can understand how anyone wants to re-use existing prefabricated modules, but it will always take something away from the impression that the artist has been working with love and dedication - all the more so, if the parts don't fit functionally. Working Animation: Anything inside the house (shadow etc.) shows a pixel movement similar to the trees. For the trees, that looks like wind, but a shadow coming alive! That sure looks strange! Build animation: We have the same kind of pale, bluish shadow there already from the roof beams. Apart from that, absolutely great! Placement: The hotspot 73 73 looks good, all possible roads around the bakery are clear. Thanks very much for your work; I am already enjoying it with my installation. Now on to the others... You sure had a productive evening, man! Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills. I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino). Top Quote

chuckw Topic Opener Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23 Posts: 945 One Elder of Players Location: New York - USA	Posted at: 2011-08-18, 17:16 Venatrix wrote: I just had a look at the new buildings and working animations. The only one, that I find disturbing is the working animation of the armour smithy, when the harnishes, shields and helmets jump into existence and back to nonexistence. I just dont have an idea, how to make it better, Im afraid. You know, I actually agree with you. I was attempting to give the impression of pieces being created, displayed and then removed for storage/sale/whatever, then a new article taking its place. It IS rather worrisome, even "distracting". I think it may be better just to have the articles appear slowly one or two at a time and, because the animation loops, possibly remove them in a similar manner to complete the cycle. The alternative would be to just suddenly erase them all at the start of the next loop. I think I favor the first approach. What do you think? Astuur wrote: Hi Chuck -- that is a bit more than just a "re-roofing" isn't it Thanks for the new working animation of the bakery! It's very nice to finally have that. I have tried to get the files from your link with my web browser, but had trouble with the conf and the menu.png. I edited the conf manually but the menu.png I cannot obtain. That is curious. Did you download them from Launchpad.net/widelands (i.e. bzr get lp:widelands/trunk)? I'll give thought to another avenue to share individual files or small numbers of them. I have installed the files for the animation in the game and tested a bit: Here are my comments: Canvas: Any particular reason, why you have enlarged the convas from 97x78 to 100x100? You don't seem to use the added space for anything. It leads to the phenomenon that the bakery is incorrectly placed in existing savegames; but newly built ones, are fine. Ah, good eyes! That was laziness on my part in my eagerness to share the new images. I neglected to crop the empty space (a bad oversight when we are trying to trim file size requirements, plus it reduces the "results" in the build animation by painting a lot of nothing. It doesn't increase the overall time though). My sincere apologies. Roof: looks definitely better with the new texture! I also like the more protruding central beam. Trees: look better in the darker variant but they don't give enough contrast against "wiese?". Maybe you can try with a stronger contrast but a lighter shade of green? We could use more variety between plants, too. I'll do some more experimenting. Smoke: Yeah, now it's coming out of the chimney, not helplessly hovering around it! Chuck - I really like how you pay attention to such details, and go out of your way to make things better! I figure, "As long as I'm in the neighborhood, I may as well do a thorough job of it." (Well, that's my INTENT anyway.) Door: I like your idea about opening the doors; you can use that for closing now, if ever we have a "sleeping" state, or even with the idle animation. BTW - we need a new bakery_i_00.png also; it should perhaps show the door closed and possible a flap on the oven. I considered closing the doors in the idle images, but it looked "unwelcoming" when carriers brought deliveries. So I established and "open-door policy". Windows: (shade inside the building). There is something wrong with this, Chuck. It isn't dark enough and has a strange bluish tint. Please compare to the house shadow outside! Actually it looks more like the house had curtains! Here I was attempting to show the interior space (i.e. floor) through the windows during the working sequence. There are three ways I could approach this issue. 1) just mask the windows and doors with black, 2) try to tweak the ambient lighting (i.e. darken the interior shadows to provide more contrast against the openings, or 3) darken the color of the floor material to gain the same effect as #2. The simplest approach is #1, and at the scale most players are using I probably should just go that route. But I have to create the interiors for the build sequences, so I have a tendency to want to show them off. Chimney texture: looks nice as is, but should really not get any rougher. Oven: very thoughful! I just doesn't make sense to have the interior in white. Not with a used oven! My latest images have a black interior for the fire box and chimney top. See these images? On a side note: You could have made your job easier with an oven door, or horizontal flap. Normally an oven needs one if you want to bake, not toast . But that is not really important. Depending on the working animation for the baker, you may want an oven door that can be openend, however, and you also might want it closed for "Idle" and "sleeping", maybe. Good thought. You obviously know your ovens. Socle: You have replaced the combed beams at the eastern edge with a miter it seems, should not the western edge be matching? Well, you baffled me on this one. I'm not sure of the area to which you are referring. Can you show me via an image? Table: Good thinking! Instead of simply re-using the tavern stuff (bench and table, which make no sense here!) You see, that is also part of the term you coined Lego-look. I can understand how anyone wants to re-use existing prefabricated modules, but it will always take something away from the impression that the artist has been working with love and dedication - all the more so, if the parts don't fit functionally. Again, good eyes! I find a "pre-fab" approach has been used throughout these models. Excusable if we did not have the wish to animate build sequences and see interiors. You'd be amazed at the architecture I'm finding! I have to do a lot of re-work to make the interiors realistic to create the builds. May as well fashion a good work table. Working Animation: Anything inside the house (shadow etc.) shows a pixel movement similar to the trees. For the trees, that looks like wind, but a shadow coming alive! That sure looks strange! Yes, to my dismay, the unexpected boon to my trees is a bane to my floors. I think I'll use a different texture for the floors or none at all and just go with a solid color. Build animation: We have the same kind of pale, bluish shadow there already from the roof beams. Apart from that, absolutely great! Thanks. I'll play with the lighting. (We may have an extra lamp or two thrown into the original model. It's time to take an inventory.) Placement: The hotspot 73 73 looks good, all possible roads around the bakery are clear. Check! Thanks very much for your work; I am already enjoying it with my installation. Now on to the others... You sure had a productive evening, man! Yes, but I cut a few corners that I should not have. I'll try harder next time. Thank you for your great critique! My wife can tell you that I need one from time to time. I see little people. Top Quote

Astuur Joined: 2009-02-28, 10:08 Posts: 733 One Elder of Players Location: Frankfurt / Germany	Posted at: 2011-08-18, 19:09 I had a close look at the smelt work this time. (Sorry, couldn't continue this morning) Not much to say, except the usual "thank you very much, Chuck". Two things though: Certainly a matter of personal taste -- but for mine, the tree to the west is just too big. Almost looks as if you wanted to hide something underneath. This takes away too much of the house and disturbs the overall impression. As I said, just my opinion. Next topic: Wouldn't it be nice to show a beam of fluid metal in the pouring animation? some yellowish to orange stuff that can go for both, gold and iron? That would really be an eye-catcher! But the trouble is, that you will spill the stuff Your form is too far away for pouring. Now, instead of moving the form, it will be easier to modify the mouth of the melting pot a little upward and may be make it longer. Coming back to the bakery for one moment. I dont think we need a picture. The lower part of the walls are made of logs (trunks). The original model shows (as still can be seen on the bakery's north-west corner a "combing". That is the typical edge that you find in log cabins, with the logs protruding from the edge on both sides. The south-easten corner also had this combing in the original model, but not in your model; you covered it with a very small tree. But that tree would not really cover that combing in its upper part. So I think you have somehow modified, cut it. You can even see it in the original size pictures here in this thread. My idea was to have either both edges log-cabin style, or none. But you decide PS: Tried again with that PM to you. PPS: No bzr something here, I was trying with my normal firefox and always get some html stuff, it seems. Edited: 2011-08-18, 19:12 Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills. I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino). Top Quote

Venatrix Joined: 2010-10-05, 20:31 Posts: 447 Tribe Member Location: Germany	Posted at: 2011-08-18, 20:15 chuckw wrote: I think it may be better just to have the articles appear slowly one or two at a time and, because the animation loops, possibly remove them in a similar manner to complete the cycle. The alternative would be to just suddenly erase them all at the start of the next loop. I think I favor the first approach. What do you think? Yes, that first approach sounds good. Now Im waiting to see it. Two is the oddest prime. Top Quote

chuckw Topic Opener Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23 Posts: 945 One Elder of Players Location: New York - USA	Posted at: 2011-08-18, 21:33 Astuur wrote: Two things though: Certainly a matter of personal taste -- but for mine, the tree to the west is just too big. Almost looks as if you wanted to hide something underneath. This takes away too much of the house and disturbs the overall impression. As I said, just my opinion. I found the tree and bushes in the model and just plugged them in. I didn't even notice the tree wasn't in the original renders. I think I'll remove it. (Besides, it's blocking the view from the window!) Next topic: Wouldn't it be nice to show a beam of fluid metal in the pouring animation? some yellowish to orange stuff that can go for both, gold and iron? That would really be an eye-catcher! But the trouble is, that you will spill the stuff Your form is too far away for pouring. Now, instead of moving the form, it will be easier to modify the mouth of the melting pot a >little upward and may be make it longer. I do move the form in the working animation, and considered including the stream of molten metal. I opted to bypass that for expediency, but I can play with it now that I will be re-rendering the model. Coming back to the bakery for one moment. I dont think we need a picture. The lower part of the walls are made of logs (trunks). The original model shows (as still can >be seen on the bakery's north-west corner a "combing". That is the typical edge that you find in log cabins, with the logs protruding from the edge on both sides. The south-easten corner also had this combing in the original model, but not in your model; you covered it with a very small tree. But that tree would not really cover that combing in its upper part. So I think you have somehow modified, cut it. You can even see it in the original size pictures here in this thread. My idea was to have either both edges log-cabin style, or none. But you decide I understand now and I have adjusted the corners to be more uniform in treatment. Thanks. And thanks for your observations, Venatrix. Rest assured that I am "back at the drawing board". Edited for format. Edited: 2011-08-18, 21:35 I see little people. Top Quote

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