Topic: Bugs
WorldSavior
Topic Opener
Joined: 2016-10-15, 04:10
Posts: 2144 OS: Linux Version: Recent tournament version  One Elder of Players Location: Germany |
Posted at: 2017-02-19, 00:41
That's true. Normally atlanteans need this mines just for granite, so after a while they don't have problems with quartz or diamonds.
Ah, okay, thanks. I suggest:
Ah, that kind of balancing. But if your suggestion would become part of the game, it would not change that much, as king_of_nowhere said... My suggestion would change more. Well, it is true, that atlanteans are stronger than the empire in the late game. But if the map contains a lot of ores, the atlanteans are not stronger than barbarians in the late game, at least I think so. And this counts only for win conditions like autocrat, anyway. If you look at wood gnome: At this win condition, atlanteans are definitely worse than the empire. And I don't think that they are much stronger then barbarians there... Maybe weaker... And concerning collectors: At this win condition, atlanteans are not the best tribe. For me it looks more like they have some disadvantages there. But thinking about balancing is complex. I made some theses now (new theses maybe?), but it's not impossible that someone surprises me with new strategies and proves that my theses are wrong By my opinion, the best balancing is improving tribes by new features and bugfixes. An example: The empirial quarry uses a lot of time for collecting stones, which are not needed in most cases. So I thought it would be an advantage for the empire if the worker could somehow collect only marble. This should not be at fast as collecting stones+marbles, but it should make the collecting of marbles faster, of course. The workers could let the stones vanish instead of carrying them to the quarry. (Vanishing wares are not that unsual in the game.) Then they could try again to collect marble instead of walking that much... And this feature could be realized by a new button for the quarry Another the example: The bug which causes that barbarian master miners "stay at home" instead of going into small mines. If this one will be fixed, barbarians become stronger Wanted to save the world, then I got widetracked 
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GunChleoc
Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
Posts: 3317 One Elder of Players Location: RenderedRect |
Posted at: 2017-02-19, 09:56
After a lot of digging, I found the stay at home bug: https://code.launchpad.net/~widelands-dev/widelands/bug-1664145-miners/+merge/317710 We do need to check with the Atlanteans if they need granite. Otherwise, they won't get any if they have some diamonds or quartz left. If they have plenty, the check won't trigger the work, so removing the granite check won't make them work more. As to the Empire, here's their production program in a nutshell: Marble Mine
Deep Marble Mine
QuarryWill find 7 granite / 2 marble So, if you want less granite and more marble, you need a mine, and if you want to shift the balance even more, an upgraded mine. I don't think we need an extra button in the quarry - that would make the game mechanics more complicated and replace the challenge for building efficient mines by micromanagement. What we could have is the worker for the quarry gaining experience and then cutting more marble when he's advanced a level. Busy indexing nil values
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king_of_nowhere
Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
Posts: 1668 One Elder of Players |
Posted at: 2017-02-19, 18:35
Pun intended?
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GunChleoc
Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
Posts: 3317 One Elder of Players Location: RenderedRect |
Posted at: 2017-02-19, 19:12
No, but appropriate Busy indexing nil values
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GunChleoc
Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
Posts: 3317 One Elder of Players Location: RenderedRect |
Posted at: 2017-02-20, 11:51
Regarding the productivity calculations, I found an open bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/widelands/+bug/1505401 Busy indexing nil values
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king_of_nowhere
Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
Posts: 1668 One Elder of Players |
Posted at: 2017-02-20, 15:37
I knew I opened one of those at some point And the second-to-last suggestion is the one I also made here, i.e. just change the mathematics so that the building will take into account the different time it takes to complete a working and an idle cycle. Shouldn't be hard
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Tibor
Joined: 2009-03-23, 23:24
Posts: 1377 One Elder of Players Location: Slovakia |
Posted at: 2017-02-20, 18:05
One of questions is, should we use times form lua files or actual time of production
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GunChleoc
Joined: 2013-10-07, 15:56
Posts: 3317 One Elder of Players Location: RenderedRect |
Posted at: 2017-02-20, 19:24
We need to use as much as we can from the Lua files. Maybe someone can come up with a general formula for average walking time that can be parametrized by the working radius. Otherwise, anytime we change the Lua configuration for balancing, the production times will be wrong again. Busy indexing nil values
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Tibor
Joined: 2009-03-23, 23:24
Posts: 1377 One Elder of Players Location: Slovakia |
Posted at: 2017-02-20, 19:40
We can just save time after each production step (regardless if successful, or not) and use it for calculation of duration of successful production time. So after each successful production we would save gametime+duration
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king_of_nowhere
Joined: 2014-09-15, 18:35
Posts: 1668 One Elder of Players |
Posted at: 2017-02-20, 22:39
for buildings that do not require workers to walk around, time for lua files is actual time of production (remeber to add the 3.6 seconds to walk to the flag and back). For farms, I made a good experimental measure there, giving 80 seconds for empire and atlantean and 100 seconds for barbarians. for woodcutters, foresters and quarries, there is no easy way to do it, because the walked distance will depend a lot on the terrain. we could calculate an average, if we accept that productivity may be greater than 100% if a building get to work closer than usual. we may add a line in the help to explain it if we do.
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