Topic: Barbarian Fortress/Citadel Models

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chuckw Topic Opener Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23 Posts: 945 One Elder of Players Location: New York - USA	Posted at: 2011-09-05, 17:57 Introducing fortress10: fortress10: fortress10a: for comparison, citadel8: Using the "fortress" inner building, as suggested by Astuur. While this structure could still be faced with blackwood, I personally favor this one. This model differs from the previous in that: I've reverted to the original roof design owing to the suggested mass of the building. The inner wall has been transformed into a reinforcing wall inside the perimeter. The moat uses a bedrock material (which could conceivably "fill" with sediment/topsoil (i.e. "courtyard material") by the time the citadel is built) I changed the material of the sharpened ends of the palisade trunks to that used in the headquarters. This and some minor alterations of a couple of the runks may mitigate the problem Astuur mentioned in the northeast palisade wall. (Plus, I don't really care for orange wood.) I moved the ladder to the catwalk into view just right of the flag pole, and yes, it has been in the models all the time. In the first image (fortress10, this image was rendered at the wrong size, sorry), I have extended the trunks into the depths of the moat. In fortress10a, the trunks rest on the bedrock. Comments? Edit - minor change to text Edited: 2011-09-05, 18:02 I see little people. Top Quote

chuckw Topic Opener Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23 Posts: 945 One Elder of Players Location: New York - USA	Posted at: 2011-09-05, 21:00 The latest: fortress10: citadel8: Cleaned up a couple things and put the inner reinforcing perimeter wall in the citadel. Lowered the drawbridge frame in both models Relocated well to a mutual spot in both models I'm pretty happy with these. What do you think? I see little people. Top Quote

hjd Joined: 2011-06-12, 20:24 Posts: 158 At home in WL-forums Location: bugs.launchpad.net/widelands	Posted at: 2011-09-05, 21:33 I really like how the fortress is turning out. And the citadel looks a lot like they had some extra time and resources to properly reinforce it. Though I think some details may make the two buildings slightly inconsistent. (I'm not saying you should fix any of these, though): - The flag is moved from beside the building and up on the roof of the tower. I see there may be too little room in the courtyard to keep it there, though. - The tower of the citadel is wider/taller than the fortress. Yes, it has been upgraded, but too some extent it looks a bit like another building instead of a gradual progress/change of the fortress one. - The citadel and fortress have different roofs. I think the fortress roof works really well, and if the goal is to create the illusion that the main building is kept, I think the roof should remain identical. In my opinion, the wall and moat really capture the feeling that the initial work from the fortress has been improved and refined when upgrading. But the rest of the building seem to have been more or less replaced. Just my 2c. Ships! Top Quote

chuckw Topic Opener Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23 Posts: 945 One Elder of Players Location: New York - USA	Posted at: 2011-09-05, 22:43 @hjd - Thanks for your comments. I hope to "explain" in the citadel build animation the transition between the buildings. The flag I positioned on top of the citadel because I think that is where the barbarians would want it, high and commanding. The citadel is a MAJOR upgrade. The swiftly built wooden building, erected in the haste of conquest, has no place with the timeless stone that seems to say, "We intend to STAY here." The goal is to say, "Out with the temporary stop-gap, in with the lasting solution." The different roofs are intended to indicate these are different structures with different purposes. The fortress building is a combination barracks, operations center, dining hall, etc. Whereas the structure perched on top of the stone citadel is nothing more than a glorified guard shack. (Hmmm, maybe I should down-scale it. What do you think? I think that I'll play with that a little.) I'm itching to start the build sequences. THEY should be fun. I see little people. Top Quote

chuckw Topic Opener Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23 Posts: 945 One Elder of Players Location: New York - USA	Posted at: 2011-09-05, 23:39 I played with the idea of re-scaling the wooden superstructure of the citadel and didn't really care for the results (even after making two little shacks, one for each end of the citadel roof.) Then I had another idea: citadel10: fortress10 for comparison: How do all of you feel about these? (Maybe with fewer windows on the citadel superstructure.) Edited: 2011-09-06, 01:58 I see little people. Top Quote

Astuur Joined: 2009-02-28, 10:08 Posts: 733 One Elder of Players Location: Frankfurt / Germany	Posted at: 2011-09-06, 06:19 Very fine work, Chuck! I like the fortress 10 very much. I'd remove the bushes from the ground level of newly excavated ditch, though As for HJD observarions about "upgradability" ... Well, if I look at the new build material needed and the time it takes to convert to a citadel, I think one might expect major modifications to the original fortress. And changing the position of a flag pole is certainly an easy thing to do, compared to building an outer stone ring. Personally, I'd want both, a distinct different building for fortress and citadel for easy recognition in the game, and a credible upgrade sequence. So, there must be a balance of these two. With the current models, the balance look good for me. Being no programmer, I apologize for all my suggestions that imply undue workload and for other misjudgements due to lack of expertise or relevant skills. I am on Win32, have no means to compile, and rely on prefabricated distributions (Thanks to Tino). Top Quote

SirVer Joined: 2009-02-19, 15:18 Posts: 1440 One Elder of Players Location: Germany - Munich	Posted at: 2011-09-06, 11:44 this now really explains why it is to darn expensive to enhance those things to citadels. Good work! The amount of details you put in your work is really great. But keep in mind that there are sooo many more buildings that need some love as well ^^ One more comment though: the fortress is also really expensive. It is significantly more expensive than a donjon or any other military building. So it should not look too small (not that I imply it does) but just keep that in mind and compare it to the donjon. Edited: 2011-09-06, 11:46 Top Quote

iamlegendnot Joined: 2011-09-05, 13:32 Posts: 8 Pry about Widelands	Posted at: 2011-09-06, 11:53 I like them but I was thinking as one upgrades the fortress to a citadel there should be something left from the fortress or at least looking similar to the fortress?? Edited: 2011-09-06, 11:56 Top Quote

chuckw Topic Opener Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23 Posts: 945 One Elder of Players Location: New York - USA	Posted at: 2011-09-06, 14:07 As a concession to provide one more element supporting the impression of "upgrading", in fortress10b, I have returned the inner stone wall which serves as the first course of stonework for the citadel keep. I feel that this element along with the well, drawbridge, catwalk, and vegetation (which mature in the upgrade) is more than sufficient to get the idea across. A LOT more can and WILL be done in the build sequence to reinforce this. It is my intent to "freeze" the models at this point so that I can commence work on the build animation. Minor cosmetic alterations may (and probably will) be made to the final work, but what you see here in fortress10b and citadel10 is what I intend to deliver. fortress10: fortress10b: citadel10: I am starting to work on the build animation at this point, and unless there is any great compelling reason to do so, no further changes will be made to these models. As SirVer so correctly stated, "...there are sooo many more buildings that need some love as well." Remember, your comments and ideas are always welcome. Edited: 2011-09-06, 14:08 I see little people. Top Quote

chuckw Topic Opener Joined: 2010-03-15, 16:23 Posts: 945 One Elder of Players Location: New York - USA	Posted at: 2011-09-06, 14:13 For those of you who may be eager to see these buildings in the game and have not yet done so, I will push these images to the trunk without build animation for now. I'll post here again when they are available. I see little people. Top Quote

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